Spiral Illusion

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Re: Spiral Illusion

Post by zilla on April 6th 2016, 11:54 am

Here's my delema.. I just cannot fathom how genius's brains work. I am talking about Isaac Newton, Feynman, Turing , Hawking and of course Einstein. There are others. I am of average intelligence, or maybe a bit lower. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that those types of people come up with stuff no one else even thought about..

Like Newton. In a two year span he came up with gravitational law, Calculus and the three laws of motion all at the age of 23 during a 2 year period.

Einstein's mind experiments blow me away.

Kinda like looking at the stars at night and wondering. Where does it begin and end.. In my mind it cannot ever end.. There is always something more..

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Re: Spiral Illusion

Post by tmex on April 6th 2016, 12:21 pm

@Z

Yes, I feel pretty much the same way. Hard to wrap your head around any other conclusion.
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Re: Spiral Illusion

Post by zilla on April 6th 2016, 1:07 pm

If you wanna read a thoroughly entertaining book I suggest "Surely You'Joking Mr Fynman!"  

Or " The Real Frank Zappa"  Zappa blows me away with his genius..  Self taught he was writing scores for symphonies and what not all during his life..  As a musician it's just another thing I can't get my head around..  

Now I think it's time to go watch some cartoons...

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Re: Spiral Illusion

Post by SWOrange on April 6th 2016, 1:25 pm

zilla wrote:Here's my delema..  I just cannot fathom how genius's brains work.  I am talking about Isaac Newton, Feynman,  Turing , Hawking and of course Einstein.  There are others.   I am of average intelligence, or maybe a bit lower.  I just can't wrap my head around the fact that those types of people come up with stuff no one else even thought about..  

Like Newton.  In a two year span he came up with gravitational law, Calculus and the three laws of motion all at the age of 23 during a 2 year period.

Einstein's mind experiments blow me away.

Kinda like looking at the stars at night and wondering.  Where does it begin and end..   In my mind it cannot ever end..  There is always something more..  

We don't really have much idea how genius' brains differ physiologically from the more "average", as we don't really understand how they work all that well in the first place. Oh sure we know some really interesting things about neurophysiology, but it's all quite basic in the grand scheme of things. It's hard to make testable predictions when we barely know what we're looking at.

There were a number of papers published when Einstein's brain was first examined that claimed a number of areas of increased connections, but we are now fairly skeptical of the quality of that work & the results.

Another semi-related and very interesting topic is as neurobiology relates to instances like autism where an individual has marked deficits in many areas, but brilliance in another.

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Re: Spiral Illusion

Post by tmex on April 6th 2016, 1:45 pm

@SWOrange

You can make some sweeping generalizations such as there is almost no chance that a person past 40 will make a significant contribution to math or physics. Just does not happen. Likewise with chess. Studies show that you peak after ten years of playing the game, and it is downhill from there. Sadly there is nothing to support the "older and wiser" cliche.

As in just about everything else - younger is way better. That is just the way it is.
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Re: Spiral Illusion

Post by creigh on April 6th 2016, 3:07 pm

tmex wrote:The metaphor is not compelling KFF. On the horizon the moon is next to a much larger sphere, the surface of the earth (which you can barely even see). If the metaphor was valid, the moon should look smaller on the horizon as the circle next to the bigger circles in your example looks smaller the the same sized circle next to the smaller circle.

I do agree that it is some sort of illusion. I just have yet to see any plausible explanation or even a decent parallel.

KFF's post seems the most plausible to me. I don't think our eyes are drawing a comparison between the earth as a sphere and the moon, but rather between the moon and things we recognise (oops, sorry hokie) recognize and know the size of. Like cars, buildings roads and mountains. That's the psychological angle. Add to that that there's a distance so great that we eventually stop factoring it into our comparisons around us.

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Re: Spiral Illusion

Post by creigh on April 6th 2016, 3:13 pm

zilla wrote:Here's my delema..  I just cannot fathom how genius's brains work.  I am talking about Isaac Newton, Feynman,  Turing , Hawking and of course Einstein.  There are others.   I am of average intelligence, or maybe a bit lower.  I just can't wrap my head around the fact that those types of people come up with stuff no one else even thought about..  

Like Newton.  In a two year span he came up with gravitational law, Calculus and the three laws of motion all at the age of 23 during a 2 year period.

Einstein's mind experiments blow me away.

Kinda like looking at the stars at night and wondering.  Where does it begin and end..   In my mind it cannot ever end..  There is always something more..  

I have thought long and hard about this too. My approach ha been more akin to a brute force algorithm whereas the clever guys seem to have a transcended like instinct. I believe deep down a genius does not see limitations to possibilities the way I do.

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Re: Spiral Illusion

Post by zilla on April 6th 2016, 5:22 pm

And that reminds me.. I need to go take a dump and think some more..

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Re: Spiral Illusion

Post by SWOrange on April 8th 2016, 9:26 am

tmex wrote:@SWOrange

You can make some sweeping generalizations such as there is almost no chance that a person past 40 will make a significant contribution to math or physics. Just does not happen. Likewise with chess. Studies show that you peak after ten years of playing the game, and it is downhill from there. Sadly there is nothing to support the "older and wiser" cliche.

As in just about everything else - younger is way better. That is just the way it is.

Good thing I'm 26.

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Re: Spiral Illusion

Post by orangerider on April 8th 2016, 2:52 pm

I`m waiting for the Hurdy Gurdy Man to start singing songs of love.
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Re: Spiral Illusion

Post by tmex on April 8th 2016, 7:29 pm

@SWOrange

Yes, it is good to be 26. You have a while to peak. Don't fucking waste it while you are in your prime.

The advantage of being older, if there is one, is you can take your time. People's expectations are lower. Plus, you change your approach to problem solving. Less ego involved. These days I pretty much Monte Carlo everything. No way I am going to beat what little brain I have left trying to figure anything out analytically. I typically build a simulation, and run it tens of thousands of times and sift through the stats. Very very sure way to get to the right answer without thinking too hard about it. As long as you can think well enough to know if you have modeled something incorrectly, you will be OK (not brilliant, just OK).
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Re: Spiral Illusion

Post by zilla on April 8th 2016, 8:41 pm

These days I pretty much have given up on problem solving. I either Google it, or throw money at it.. Sometimes both.

As Dennis says: " any problem you can solve by paying someone is just an expense.." Or something like that

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Re: Spiral Illusion

Post by tmex on April 9th 2016, 5:08 pm

Hey Zilla, I am still working on the missing plane problem, and have the opportunity to interact with a number of advanced degree people. Sometimes I come walking out of my study totally dazed and confused. It is hard to understand how someone with a PhD in math, physics, or EE can be so completely fucked up. As a result, I get kicked off and suspended from forums on a regular basis. This particular problem is in my "wheelhouse". It is what I did to earn money, and I am really really good at it.

Ami is no help. When I appear frothing at the mouth she suggests taking a Glock and a blue tarp out behind the barn so she does not have a big mess to clean up. She can get down to bedrock (maybe five feet or so at our place) with six passes of the D6, and roll me into the trench with minimal to no cleanup.

Ami also has a PhD (EE), but refuses to get involved in the MH370 problem. I think it goes back to when she was working in another group (that I was funding), and I referred to her as a "Dickless Tracy" relative to her problem solving ability. What comes around goes around.
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Re: Spiral Illusion

Post by KTMSwade on April 9th 2016, 5:22 pm

Are suspended until 2018 as well?

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Re: Spiral Illusion

Post by zilla on April 9th 2016, 8:34 pm

I dealt with Engineers my whole career..  Some good some a-holes..  My
MO was that I would offer a solution.  Usually the correct one as I have a ton of real world experience and knowledge due to my back ground..  If they listened fine If not I was done and walked away.  

Case in point [one of many] a brand new 4160 switch gear crapped the bed..  Of course the whole shop was up there lookin at it.  I arrive and ask my boss what is going on.  He tells me they can't get a latch or close circuit.  I look at the print and see a set of contacts that would cause this.  Sugest testing.  They test, contacts FUBAR..  Now I suggest that they remove an un-used module from a spare and replace this one.  Engineer says it'll take too much programming etc..  Ok..  Exit zilla.   3-4 hours later they get it running and come back to the shop.  I ask the boss what they did.  He says, swapped the module..  I continued surfing the web..

As for AMi? She's a keeper, just like my woman who continues to both amaze and baffle me

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Re: Spiral Illusion

Post by tmex on April 9th 2016, 8:40 pm

@Z

As I often tell my younger friends (I don't have many younger friends) their biggest concern should be who will keep the infrastructure running when my generation passes on. Pathetic really how disappointing the youngin's are.
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Re: Spiral Illusion

Post by zilla on April 9th 2016, 8:46 pm

@Tmex.. Do not get me started on the young'un's.... I'd rather deal with engineers

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Re: Spiral Illusion

Post by SWOrange on April 11th 2016, 6:30 am

tmex wrote:@SWOrange

Yes, it is good to be 26. You have a while to peak. Don't fucking waste it while you are in your prime.

The advantage of being older, if there is one, is you can take your time. People's expectations are lower. Plus, you change your approach to problem solving. Less ego involved. These days I pretty much Monte Carlo everything. No way I am going to beat what little brain I have left trying to figure anything out analytically. I typically build a simulation, and run it tens of thousands of times and sift through the stats. Very very sure way to get to the right answer without thinking too hard about it. As long as you can think well enough to know if you have modeled something incorrectly, you will be OK (not brilliant, just OK).

I can see that. I like to think I'm fairly good at keeping my ego and emotions out of things and thinking logically - but that's a bit of a paradox in and of itself.

Mid-20's have been awesome. Not making the big bucks, but I live modestly and have enough to do fun/stupid things.

I've been a bit complacent with my job lately, but it's looking like there might be some changes coming. Fingers crossed.

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Re: Spiral Illusion

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